News analysis
Israeli-Palestinian peace talks
Watching from the sidelines
Sep 2nd 2010, 15:29 by D.L. | WASHINGTON, DC
THE Obama magic has waned and Washington, to a visitor, is full of people sadly theorising about why it waned so fast and whether it might be retrievable. The president’s address to the nation on Tuesday night about the withdrawal from Iraq had none of the sparkle of the campaign and the early months. His famously inspiring rhetoric seemed almost wooden.
Nevertheless, for this still-unjaundiced admirer from afar, there was a flash of that former throat-constricting poignancy when he opened the renewed Israeli-Palestinian talks on Wednesday evening.
“The programme will begin in two minutes,” a White house staffer proclaimed before Barack Obama entered with his Mid-Eastern guests to the throng of officials (seated) and journalists (standing squashed round the walls) in the East Room of the White House. And, indeed, the event—a series of speeches from the leaders before they ate the iftar together, breaking the daily fast of Ramadan at sundown—had a staged and stilted air about it.
Still, it was the old Mr Obama (or his old speechwriter) who wove into his remarks a moving reference to this being both the holy month of Ramadan for Muslims and the pre-Rosh Hashana month of Elul for the Jews. “Different faiths, different rituals, but a shared period of devotion—and contemplation. A time to reflect on right and wrong…” Kitsch? Perhaps. Contrived? That, too: Bill Clinton and George W. Bush were equally ecumenical regarding the other monotheistic faiths during their tenures.
And yet, there seems, still, something especially authentic in Mr Obama’s frequent reaching out to Islam and Judaism. Because of who he is, no doubt, and where he came from, and how genuinely comfortable he seems to be in a multicultural environment.
Elsewhere, many of the journalists succumbed to an hour of suffering corralled in the hot sun followed by more long and uncomfortable waiting inside the White House in order to have their own look at Hosni Mubarak and make their own mind up about the Egyptian president's mortality.
To this inveterate hypochondriac, at any rate, the long-time leader looked pretty good. Thinner, true, and hands shaking a bit. But alert, upright, active. I have a secret theory, developed and tested during the Brezhnev years, that one of the little laughs God likes to have, especially on the massed punditry of mankind, is that whenever the world’s media (inspired by the world’s spooks) decide unanimously to bury someone alive, he gets more months, and even years, added to his divinely ordained expiration date. Fidel Castro has been bearing witness in recent years to this celestial sense of humour. Now Mr Mubarak, widely written off with “only a year to live, if that”, seems to have been handed the Heavenly baton and charged with proving the pundits morbidly wrong.
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SHOW THE PROOF. Fool.
Your words are meaningless. Show the proof. Otherwise … your own Lies have no meaning.
Your opinion is less that worthless. Primo Idiot.
Here's news just off the press:
Danny Ayalon in a meeting with Salim Fayaad wanted wording covering the meeeting they had both had at the UN to read: "two states for two peoples – Jewish and Palestinian," and demanded guarantees that committee donations don't go towards incitement or boycotting of Israeli goods" … to which Fayaad … stormed out without agreeing … Fayaad only wanted the memo to say '2 states' …
Jewish must be a 'verboten' … concept for Arab/Muslims … if it's so toxic to say …
Let me say it's toxic to say … Islam … or Muslim
but guess what … it doesn't resonate the same with me.
Must be something in 'THEIR' culture … ya think?
@ Primo Idiot:
You said: "Crimes against Christians and Jews in Israel are promoted and encouraged. That's it."
SHOW THE PROOF. Fool.
"The nation of Israel views the freedom of religion as an important value which has already been determined in the Israeli Declaration of Independence wherein it is indicated that the Israeli nation will grant equal civil rights to all its citizens without indifference of religion, gender and sex. The nation of Israel has also signed and ratified international treaties which declare that ‘Everyone shall have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right shall include freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice, and freedom either individually or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in worship, observance, practice and teaching’
THAT WAS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THOSE THAT CAN READ …
Primo Idiot can't read …
he can fulminate …
he can tell fatuous lies …
he can pontificate …
But he remains … a bigot … a racist … a chauvinist hypocrite
tzatz the super idiot.
IT IS A POLICY in ISRAEL to discriminate against Christians and Moslems.
Jews are encouraged to discriminate against Christians and Moslems.
The whole philosophy of zionism is to discriminate against Christians and Moslems. The idia is to replace Christians and Moslems with jews.
Don't want to view the link? Here's a copy of the text to your question regarding freedom of religion.
"The nation of Israel views the freedom of religion as an important value which has already been determined in the Israeli Declaration of Independence wherein it is indicated that the Israeli nation will grant equal civil rights to all its citizens without indifference of religion, gender and sex. The nation of Israel has also signed and ratified international treaties which declare that ‘Everyone shall have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right shall include freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice, and freedom either individually or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in worship, observance, practice and teaching’. These treaties determine, however, that the freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs may be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary to protect public safety, order, health, morals or the fundamental rights and freedoms of others.
An incident occurred in the Beit El Mission v. the Minister of Welfare in the year 1967 regarding the first section of the criminal law that prohibits religious persuasion to minors. This decision dealt with an Evangelical Christian organization that requested to establish an orphanage for children of all religions and then train them according to the Christian faith. The minister of welfare prohibited to licence such an orphanage even if both parents of such a child that are not Christian gave their approval. In his court decision Justice Cohen emphasized that freedom of religious expression exists in Israel, however, this right is limited as it relates to minors. In his words- ‘There is no doubt that just as any person in Israel, regardless of his religion, has the right to change his religion, so does every person have the right to distribute and preach his religion in public in any legal way that he desires- including by way of teaching. However, this is only relevant as it relates to a qualified adult that has the ability to consider the different religious beliefs. On the other hand, a person who is not able to weigh the different religions one against the other because he is a minor or because of some defect, is not able and therefore is not entitled to convert from one religion to another.’ Furthermore, Justice Cohen indicates that the Israeli legislator is secular and therefore the concern for the child has do be viewed by secular motives only, and that the issues which pertain to the afterlife are not legitimate claims in the Israeli courts. Such a ruling is obviously difficult for those who believe in the afterlife and obviously for such a believer, the consideration of the afterlife will always overrule the secular considerations of the legislator."
You can verify it … with the link I've already given … putz
@ Primo Idiot:
You said: "Crimes against Christians and Jews in Israel are promoted and encouraged. That's it."
SHOW THE PROOF. Fool.
tzatz the super idiot.
Don't give me this link or that link.
And don't change the subject to justify yourself.
The jews in Israel do discriminate against Christians and Moslems. And their are laws in place made by jews against Cgristians and Moslems.
Crimes against Christians and Jews in Israel are promoted and encouraged.
That's it.
@ Primo Idiot:
You said: "If you go to down town Tel Aviv, start preaching that Jesus is the way to go, you are arrested because it is a felony to do so in Isreal. ( Forget about free speach."
I googled the following answer to your question:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100402225625AAaDBlS
Try preaching Christianity in Saudi Arabia or for that matter … ANY MUSLIM MAJORITY COUNTRY … it's your head on the pavement … WAKE UP … FOOL. Are you just a goof ball or a whack job or a bigot? Whatever … you're ignorant.
@ A Bangladeshi:
"two brothers who happen to be esteemed leaders of Jews and Muslims"
Muslim? Who said Ishamel was a Muslim? He lived and died the son of Abraham a Jew … but he NEVER WAS A MUSLIM.
The Muslim may have appropriated him as their own … but that's on them.
President Obama is and has always been a Christian. All Muslims know this and acknowledge it. To Christians he is a Christian and nothing else. He lived in a Muslim country. That does not make him a Muslim.
Most Americans and Jews believe that he is a Moslem. However to Moslem, he is considered to be an Apostate who has abandoned the faith of his fore-fathers.
It says in the article about Obama:
“Because of who he is, no doubt, and where he came from, and how genuinely comfortable he seems to be in a multicultural environment”
This quality gives the President his greatest advantage and has been put to good use in solving (or beginning to solve) many problems inherited from the disaster that was Bush.
This quality also makes it difficult for people who are by nature myopic and intolerant to have any positive interactions with him.
He has done well in nearly all areas. The problem may be that people too often forget that he cannot perform miracles. The level of expectation everyone has of him is huge and many of the problems he has not been able to solve in the short period he has been in are not of his making and are not solvable by their very nature.
I congratulate P.M. Netanyahu for his patience in handling President Obama. How many people could have done such a good job in negotiating with this Person ?
ONE STATE.
With equal and identical rights for Christians, Moslems and Jews.
That's the only thing that will work.
In the end humanity will win against idiology.
This Zionist baloney will not last more than fifty years, at most.
Christians and Moslems do not have equal and Identical rights as Jews.
In the Israeli Parliament the non Jews only have four or five seats at most, and rarely, out of 120 seats.
25 % ( the non Jews ) should have 30 seats. The system is rigged against the non Jews.
In the 22 seat Cabinet the non Jews are allocated 1 or 2 seats, for propaganda purposes . 25 % of 22 is 5 or 6 seats. Here also obviously the Jews discriminate against the non Jews.
If you are a Jew coming from, god knows where, you are immediately given money and housing and citizenship etc. If you are a non jew you are thrown out as soon as possible. No Israeli citizenship and goodies that jews are given.
There are jews only roads.
There are jews only housing.
If Christian or Moslem property is taken by Jews. No compensation for the non Jews.
Jews can always grab Moslem and Christian property and settle in it . ( Settlers ) FREE
If the property is Christian and Moslem property it is always considered contested for the benefit of the Jews.
I can go on and on.
The zionist system is rigged against Christians and Moslems, that's why it is called zionist.
If you go to down town Tel Aviv, start preaching that Jesus is the way to go, you are arrested because it is a felony to do so in Isreal. ( Forget about free speach.
Doublehelix, your comment that the jews and Palestinians should solve their problems in a Christian manner. Did you mean to continue bombing each other indiscriminately and blame each other for wmd. Oh wait but Israel has wmd's. Let's be rational now. These leaders on all sides need to compromise. let's avoid religous conotations that's what gets us in trouble in the 1st place. Concentrate on economic equity and there maybe peace. People just need an opurtunity to thrive and live and all else just falls into place.
Although it is a bit of a change for our boy Obama to play peacemaker instead of going on an apology tour of the world, I'm afraid this is no less a fool's errand. There will be no peace in the Middle East as long as Israel and Iran are at drawn swords. Wars of proxy are preferable to direct conflict, even for a maniacal state bent on developing nuclear capabilities despite international sanctions and the Palestinians are willing accomplices. Nothing new here.
'It behooves the Jews and the Arabs to solve their differences in a Christian-like manner.'
In my view any Israeli-Palestinian peace talks are bound to fail as long as the main problems of the Palestinian nation remain unresolved. Tens of rounds of negotiations have been held for more than thirty years and tens of plans have been put forward but they have all failed. The main reason behind the failure of the negotiations and plans lied in the very fact that they all failed to take into consideration the Palestinians' demands and their main problems, besides Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran aren't in the negotiation table.
Religious creeds, Islam and Judaism at the forefront, are ultimately to blame for the intolerance and lack of rational behavior on both sides of this apparently unsolvable conflict.
When both sides claim god-given rights to land, cite their respective books of fables and metaphors (written by the divinity, who else?) to "prove" their claims, how in this world can one expect that the incumbent leaders will reach a consensus?
Religions, by definition, require that you do not ask for evidence in order to believe their claims. You simply have to "have faith". This is exactly the opposite of what is needed in constructive discussions.
I prefer Science and rationality.
President Obama has highlighted the spirit rest of the world share too. Judhaism and Islam are not matured and there is no reason for the respective followers to practice their religion side by side in their own ways. Prime Minister Netayuhu yesterday in the inaugural session mentioned about the burial scene of Prophet Abraham is presence of Issac and Ismail, two brothers who happen to be esteemed leaders of Jews and Muslims. Why brothers should kill each other? They could together take both the nations to new heights.